Interview with Hades, King of the Underworld
Participants: Hades (Haides, Aides) and me
Before diving into what turned out to be an interesting evening, I should probably give a little bit of background. Forgive the rabbit trail.
Hi, my name is A.G. Vanidottir. I am the author of this website. Yes, it is a moniker rather than my real name. Unless otherwise notated the material presented on this site is all my own work. I give credit where it is due and if I ever miss a name I have no problem with making the necessary edits to include them. As my bio states, I am a pagan. A hard polytheist to be a little more specific. I walked a Druidic path for many years and I still draw on it for most of my rituals whether public or private. At this point it is just ingrained into my being just like my eye color or skin tone. I also dabble with some of the Lwa/Loa but I do not claim to walk that path nor to know everything about it. When a connection is desired with one of them I answer to the best of my abilities even though I may never be able to truly understand such a rich and diverse cultural belief system. My primary path revolves around the Nordic pantheon. They are in my devotionals each morning and I regularly go to them. They are my family, not just gods I honor. I also have a few others that I work with spiritually outside the Norse pantheon: Tailtiu, Hermes, Hestia, Aine, Fortuna, Ganesha, Shakti, and various types of Wights. My connections can be a bit fluid as the needs arise and I have worked with many others whose names are not listed. One of the joys of being a hard polytheist is that I don’t have to pick just one, even one pantheon. I belong to the Norse, but they do not begrudge when I need to veer a little differently. Except Brigid. Freyja really doesn’t like me to work with her and because of my relationship with the Vanadis, I do not.
This may sound a little strange but for my own path I do not see the gods (or Kindreds) as being some distant beings to make offerings and requests to. They walk and talk with me when they want and some of the stories I could tell would make your sides hurt with laughter. When I say they are family I mean it. My path with the other realms is a deeply personal one as are my interactions. As I reread this paragraph I recognize that I should mention about five and a half years ago I swore off my beliefs. I closed all my connections and turned my back on everything. I think everyone has that point in their journey. A moment when the sacrifices and hardships become too much and there is no way to see how the scales will ever balance back into their favor. We ask ourselves what is the point if the heartache and suffering only continues to get worse? The Kindreds demand a great deal of us. Sometimes our lives are situated in such a way that we can give easily. How lucky are those individuals. Most of us, however, struggle with the day to day life of the 21st century and often find ourselves riding the edge of poverty on a daily basis. To be fair, this does not only apply to pagans. The hows and whys would divert this post towards politics and I am really not interested in discussing that here.
As I said, I had turned my back on my path. After a difficult 2014 I started trying to find myself in my beliefs once more. It wasn’t, and still isn’t, easy. The abilities I once had were greatly diminished. There was a price to pay for what I did and that meant the Kindreds were not going to just welcome me back with open arms. I am a pretty stubborn individual though so clawing my way back will just create better bonds. With the loss of my daughter in 2015 I found myself desperate for connection. The morning I received the news her body had been found this EMP-like wave went out from me. My room filled with gods and goddesses as they wept with me. In my darkest hour they did not turn away but instead mourned at my side surrounding me with compassion and lending what strength they could as the weight crashed down on me. Since then I have been slowly working my way back. It is harder and filled with a lot more potholes than when I initially travelled this way. I accept the fact that it is my doing and I must work on each pothole to fix what I let deteriorate before moving forward. I cannot really recommend it.
About two years before my daughter’s passing a certain deity began making his presence known. I am not a follower of the Hellenic path, so when Hades showed up I was a bit confused. I already had an underworld deity I worked with, Hela, so the reason he decided to contact me was unclear. After a few false starts we finally were able to make ourselves clear to one another. The nature of our relationship took a couple of years to work through, the details of which are deeply personal. Suffice it to say we are very close and though he has a place on my ancestor altar I am not his devotee. He tried to warn my daughter before she left her home state but teenagers are headstrong and the environment she was raised in did not really prepare her for that type of contact. It wasn’t until after she moved that she described her visitor to me and I was able to share his identity. Only now can I recognize that he was trying to keep her safe. Had I been with her at that point of her life she would have understood. I cannot bring myself to speculate whether she would still be alive. Hindsight is so much clearer than 20/20.
My relationship with Hades now is even closer than it was then. During the dark months of the year I wear a ring on my right hand for him. During the light months it goes next to his representation on the altar. He asked me a bit ago to write his story. I have a lot of stories in my head but sometimes they don’t translate well to the written page. I can *feel* the truth in them but they do not always match the lore so are often not given very much credence. I was surprised by his request as I do not often write anymore. I hemmed and hawed and finally agreed to think about it. A few days ago, I decided I would do the necessary research (beyond what I already knew) and try to piece together some sort of story for him. I recognize that there are many who wrote about the God of the Dead (Hesiod, Homer, and Aeschylus to name a few) but every time I read their myths it just seems so full of glaring errors. It may be the translations, or the differences in regional tales, but as I do not speak nor read ancient Greek, I will just have to trust those scholars that can. I dove into the couple of texts I already owned and scoured the internet. Theoi.com was a huge help for quick and dirty information complete with cited source material. If you get a chance definitely take a look. The more I tried to get a handle on where to take the story the less I could find a common thread. After honoring the ancestors this Sunday morning, he decided to have a little mercy on me. Instead of a story he was willing to do an interview style piece. So, I sit here at the computer with notes on his mythos while he hangs out on the couch to answer my questions. When I asked him why he would want to do this in the first place his response was that he hoped to set the records straight a bit. I hope that you get as much out of the interview as I did. Plus, who wouldn’t want to look at such a gorgeous guy for hours on end?
——
AG: Alright, you finally got me to consent to this. Where do you want to start?
H: I suppose we could always start at the beginning. It seems as good a place as any.
AG: Very well, this is what I currently know – son of Kronus and Rhea. First born son but fourth child. He swallowed you after birth and you were stuck there with your five other siblings until Zeus got him to throw up. Sound about right?
H: *rolls eyes* If you want to keep it exceedingly simple, yes.
AG: It’s not?
H: Not really. There were rights of ascension and curses involved. Most of what has been written about it is fairly accurate. I would like to say that it was quite uncomfortable and it smelled of badly fermented cheese. I blame my brother for that.
AG: Poseidon?
H: No, Zeus. I think he kept feeding Kronus rotten cheese with the wine. I have suspected for years that he did it on purpose just to be a jerk. Bratty little brothers and all.
AG: I didn’t have any brothers growing up so I cannot vouch for that.
H: Lucky you.
AG: Okay, so after Zeus freed you guys Kronus was killed and you guys took over. You didn’t seem to want to elaborate on this part of your story so I am just hitting the highlights.
H: Correct.
AG: There are theories that you didn’t really like your “lot” when the kingdoms were divided. Is that true?
H: No. Believe it or not I really like my job. Regardless of what happens I will always have subjects and a role in the universe. Even after all the humans die off there will still be souls in the Underworld. I will go on.
AG: …right. As part of the dividing you each received a token, or gift. Yours was a helmet of invisibility. How does it work?
H: The helmet is often stated as being the thing that grants me the ability to ‘go invisible.’ That is a falsehood. I can utilize that skill with or without the helmet. It does help to focus the ability when too much activity is going on around me.
AG: Like a sensory deprivation sort of thing?
H: *pauses* In a way. If someone else were to don the helmet they would be able to use its capabilities but only as it is an extension of me. I don’t often bring it out anymore. It’s more of a paperweight on my desk now. A souvenir of the past.
AG: Do you miss those days?
H: No. There were a lot of ass holes going around back then. Gods and men alike. We, the Olympians I mean, were a little too cocksure. We didn’t stop to think what would happen as men evolved. Things were taken for granted and before too long mankind stopped needing us. By the time we realized things had changed it was too late.
AG: Well, you obviously didn’t fade away as some would think. What happened?
H: Mostly, we just sort of closed things down, adapted to the times, and did our own thing. My job remained the same. Since my name became synonymous with the actual Underworld I did not have the same worries as the others. They were lucky though, thanks to early Greek authors some of the tales survived and were passed down. It kept things going through the years. Whenever it became necessary to “juice up” a resurgence of interest in antiquities would happen.
AG: Well, that explains all the Greco-Roman artwork in Britain.
H: Exactly.
AG: Most of the big names survived it seems.
H: Yes, but many others were lost. I see them occasionally as they pass through but I generally don’t have a lot of time to devote towards them.
AG: Speaking of which, King of the Underworld. That is a full-time with overtime type of position. How are you able to devote any time outside your realm? According to lore you didn’t often leave.
H: Well, it IS a full-time job. Fortunately, I know how to delegate after several millennia. There are quite a few entities that lend me a hand. Plus, time is not linear. We are not limited in that way. We can exist in multiple places, and realities, at once depending on the need. While I didn’t spend a lot of my time on the surface, or on Olympus, I did tend to go above more frequently than the stories relay. It wasn’t always pleasant.
AG: You mean in the way that your cults honored you? They couldn’t even look directly at your visage or the offerings as they spoke your name. I have my own theory as to why.
H: I would like to hear it.
AG: Back then death was something to be feared. If you faced it head on then it might be misconstrued as an invitation to come and claim you. They wanted to live. The stories that survive from visitors to the Underworld side heavily on connections with those in the fires of Tartarus rather than a pleasant, heavenly place. If the only firsthand descriptions of the afterlife involved tortuous eternity, then of course death was something to be feared. The heavens were filled with beauty, grace, and feasting. Urns and murals often showed you turned to the side away from people. Depicting a sense of avoidance towards death.
H: I always hated those depictions. Everyone else got a decent head shot but no one wanted to look at me head on. You have a valid point regarding the outlook on death. They feared it, though once they crossed over the river most forgot what they were afraid of to begin with. There were no more opportunities for glories or fame, a concept highly prized back then. Propaganda was never in my favor. In more recent times death seems to be better embraced. I blame ‘The Lion King.’
AG: The circle of life? *hums a few bars*
H: *smiles* It fits. Humans today tend to see that instead of being afraid of death embracing how it is connected makes living so much richer and full of potential.
AG: I know you don’t like talking about this but I find it has to be brought up. What’s the deal with your marriage?
H: *sighs heavily* First off, let me remind you that the propaganda was usually against me. Things did NOT go down exactly like the early writers depicted. It was easy to paint me the bad guy. I was not ‘mooning’ in the Underworld desperate for love. I did not look upon her once and become lovestruck. Please, give me a little credit. There came a time when I decided that having a partner would be nice. Ruling a kingdom is exhausting and sometimes lonely. I spent most of my time away from my family because I was busy dealing with the dead that their various feuds and contests would create. Eventually I approached my brother about the idea of taking a wife. By ‘taking’ I do NOT mean kidnapping against their will. I mean finding someone and arranging a marriage. To be fair, I had met Persephone at that point and thought she was a sweet girl. Demeter was pretty possessive, think helicopter parent, so I did not get the chance to know her very well. Zeus thought that it would be a good match as she was available and so was I. We negotiated for quite some time before anything was made final. Try and remember that in those days the men handled marriage negotiations and contracts. Women were rarely given any choice in the matter, and that includes goddesses. While Athena, Artemis, and Hestia were all happy being single; a marriage between Persephone and I would allow for an extra tie between the Kingdom of the Skies and the Kingdom of the Underworld. On paper it was a good match. The marriage contract would add another tie between the two worlds ensuring balance and peace. Should Demeter have been consulted? Looking back it would have solved a lot of issues. At the very least I think that Persephone should have been warned. Zeus should have told her. I honestly thought he was going to. Just another dick move on his part.
AG: He seems to make a lot of those.
H: You have no idea. The day came for me to take her below for the ceremony. Weddings were most often held in the kingdoms of the men so the hall was prepared and a feast laid out. Zeus was supposed to tell everyone when to show up. I really should have sent out the invitations myself. I appeared in the designated location near Eleusis to collect my bride to be. Persephone was there picking flowers. I presumed she was making her wedding bouquet. Having met me before she was not afraid when I appeared. Contrary to the tales she did not scream in terror. I am not that bad looking. After greeting me she asked why I was there. A sense of discomfort started in my head but I ignored them thinking that she may have forgotten the date. So much for a wedding bouquet. I explained about the contract and that this was the day that Zeus and I had agreed upon for the marriage to occur. She did seem more shocked than I thought she should have been. I showed her the paperwork and told her that our guests were waiting. She started to cry. I became nervous. She read through the contract and realized that her father was not going to intervene and that she was, indeed, required to marry me. I put my hand down and helped her into my chariot. Persephone is a tiny little thing so in all fairness it may have looked like I hauled her up like a sack of wheat. She didn’t stop crying through the whole ceremony. Zeus was there and so was Hera to bless the marriage. I knew the others were not fond of the Underworld so I didn’t take offence at their lack of attendance. It was not a long ceremony.
AG: Okay, so what about the pomegranate seeds?
H: Again, not entirely true. Did she eat pomegranate seeds? Yes. She also ate wedding cake and part of the feast. The seeds just became a sticking point later on. It was a legitimate marriage with the appropriate trappings. There would be no reason for her to starve herself. She is tiny but man can that girl eat. She blames it on a high metabolism. I suppose that my biggest concern was that Demeter wasn’t present. This is where the problems started.
AG: That’s where the problem started? Not the lack of informing her to begin with?
H: Like I said, the contract was handled in the normal fashion. I honestly had no clue that Zeus hadn’t told either of them the situation. Once the ceremony and feast were over Zeus and Hera returned home and we were left to enjoy our wedding night. The only thing I will say about it is that we got through it. She was young and innocent. I could have been more understanding but after crying throughout the day and night I simply had run out of patience. I went back to my rooms afterwards and prepared to resume my duties the next day. I had already made the arrangements for a tutor to educate her on her new duties and figured that was that. The next day she was quiet but began her studies. After a couple of weeks we seemed to settle into a nice routine we could both appreciate. I knew she missed her home and it began to bother me more and more that Demeter hadn’t even tried to see her. Once she had all the rules and duties for her new role down, I had planned on surprising Persephone with a trip to Olympus. While I did not often venture up there it would be worth it to put a real smile on her face. I am not a monster.
AG: So, what happened? This doesn’t seem to really fit into what we know from the sources.
H: What happened is that Zeus is an ass. He never told Demeter and informed Hera to keep her mouth shut. Demeter obviously freaked out. Most of that part from the story is true. The wandering and the despair as she searched was very real. If I had known that she was so distraught I would have transported her down to our home immediately to see her daughter. We do not often get a lot of information from topside unless we go looking for it. When she came across Hekate in her search, Hekate had no idea that Demeter had not been told. At that point it was common knowledge and she had just gone through a lesson with Persephone regarding souls and the crossroads earlier that day. Once Demeter figured out what happened she went immediately to Zeus. From what I understand the screaming match that took place was epic.
AG: In the tales she began to boycott her duties demanding Persephone be returned. Is that true?
H: Yes and no. It had been long enough that Demeter was more than aware that to dissolve the marriage would be impossible. Not only the food issue but there was the sex issue as well. Our marriage was consummated and binding, food be damned. Her “boycott” was more a mourning ritual. She viewed the proceedings as a death for Persephone rather than a valid match. She went a little far with it to be sure. I offered for her to come and visit once we were made aware of the situation but Demeter refused. Persephone became worried that her mother would waste away in grief. It was Persephone, not Demeter, that asked for a reprieve. By this time several months had passed and we were expecting a child. Worried for her health I began negotiations for her to spend time in Olympus. Persephone is a child of light and creation. Too much time in my world tended to sap her of her vitality. I admit that had we, Zeus and I, thought of this the marriage would most likely never have happened. The other Olympians were concerned for humanity as the lack of food meant lack of offerings. It was finally agreed that Persephone would spend the growing months with Demeter to ensure that crops would prosper and the harsher months with me. It equaled out to about 1/3 of the year in the Underworld.
AG: Then where do the seeds come in?
H: Propaganda. Humans were aware of the rule that if you eat food of the Underworld you would have to stay. They thought this is what kept the souls below. For some reason they thought this would apply to the gods too. Why mess with a convenient interpretation? Pomegranates became the fruit of the Underworld which left more for us to eat. Hermes came and collected her as Demeter was still too upset to want to see me. When Persephone returned she brought our son, Zagreus, with her. Artemis took one look at him and instantly asked to be his godmother. He became quite fond of wild animals.
AG: Do you have any other biological children?
H: No.
AG: What about the other children attributed to Persephone?
H: They are not mine. They are children of Zeus.
AG: What?
H: *takes a deep breath* This is where I think some of the misconceptions regarding my relationship with Persephone have come from. My brother apparently had a thing for my wife. For gods, blood relation does not always have the same connotation that humans give it. Except for me. Especially in regards to my wife. Zagreus and I were out walking Cerberus. Persephone was due to return from her latest visit with Demeter any hour. What I didn’t know was that Zeus had been admiring her for quite some time and had decided to act upon it. Persephone had rebuffed him before but didn’t think she was in any real danger and thus decided against notifying me. It happened just before she crossed the River Cocytus back into the Underworld. He approached her disguised as me and acted as if I had planned to surprise her with a little welcome back party before resuming her duties. Touched that I had planned such a reunion she didn’t even think to question why I would not have waited until she crossed over. Once the deed was done, she was lingering with Zeus/Me when Zagreus and I approached the crossing to wait for her. What I saw was my wife lying naked in the arms of my brother. What Persephone saw was her husband and son across the river while she lay in the arms of who she thought was her husband. The miscommunication of what had happened lasted quite some time. She was devastated and felt betrayed. I was floored at my wife’s infidelity. I did not treat her very well, especially after discovering that she was pregnant. Her sole daughter, Melinoë, was born from that union. I have my regrets in how things were handled. I have had thousands of years to reevaluate my own role. All I can say is that at the time it was happening neither she nor I were at our best with each other. I found comfort in the arms of other women, namely Minthe and Leuce, though there were others. By the time that I discovered the truth of events our marriage was already damaged nearly beyond repair. She began to spend more time above and rather than fight it I let it slide. When she was needed she would come home. I will always give her credit when it came to honoring her responsibilities. She never shirked her duties to the dead. The final nail in the coffin of our marriage was when she and Demeter began their Eleusian Mysteries cult. During one of the events Zeus showed up. He couldn’t leave well enough alone and after some heavy drinking, and drugs to induce visions, he slept with Persephone again. She came to me several months later and told me what happened. She was pregnant again and we both knew it wasn’t mine.
AG: That could not have been easy for either one of you. She had to be traumatized by all of this.
H: She was. We both knew that our marriage was done. While it wasn’t her fault that my brother can’t keep his penis to himself we had done too much damage to each other from our pain. Once we agreed that we were through it was like a weight was lifted from our shoulders. When her time came to bear her final child he was born in the Underworld. She didn’t even have time to name him before the Titans attacked. They had sensed he was a child of Zeus and wanted revenge. I was fighting them off when the child was kidnapped. They ripped him apart and disposed of each piece. Hermes managed to save the child’s heart and whisked it away to Olympus. Zeus placed it in the womb of his current mistress, Semele, where the babe was regenerated.
AG: Wait a minute. He was “regenerated?”
H: Yes. He was created of two immortals. He was born fully formed with his godhood intact. This allowed the regeneration since he was placed quickly.
AG: Wow. Alrighty then. Continue.
H: When Semele made Zeus swear on the River Styx to appear in his true form another problem occurred. Had the babe been less than fully immortal it would have died when Semele burned to ash. As it was Zeus was able to rescue the premature infant. Rather than deal with another episode of Hera’s wrath he placed the child in his thigh to protect him. A couple of months later Dionysus was born. Some call him the twice-born god but really it was three times.
AG: How did Persephone take all of this?
H: The birth was difficult and then there was the war. She had a pretty bad case of PTSD from everything that happened with Zeus, the pregnancies, and the battle with the Titans. Once she healed I let her know the series of events with Dionysus and the overall outcomes. She grieved for the child she lost now full grown. They have a friendly relationship but I don’t think it will ever be a close one.
AG: What is your relationship like now if I might ask?
H: We are much better off as friends. Do not misunderstand. I loved my wife and she genuinely cared for me. I will always love the girl I married. Had things started out a little differently we would have had a love for the ages. As it stands too much happened to keep us apart emotionally. We have long since admitted our mistakes to each other and moved forward. She still helps with those duties that are needed but spends most of her time in Olympus.
AG: Are you guys still married?
H: In the sense that our union was never truly dissolved. None of us really do the whole ‘divorce’ thing. By remaining together it gives her a much needed break from Olympus and Zeus whenever she requires it. He has never stopped pursuing her. Are we lovers? No. She has had other loves, Adonis being one. While I do occasionally feel a twinge of jealousy, it is more from what could have been rather than out of any passion I feel now.
AG: I am sorry that you guys were unable to work things out.
H: Thank you. We have both moved passed it.
AG: Do you have any other children?
H: No. I have been linked to a few potentials but they are not mine.
AG: Do you mean Makaria, Plutus, and the Erinyes?
H: Among others. Makaria’s father was Herakles. The Erinyes were born shortly after I took over the Underworld. I was a little busy at the time and had no lovers. As far as Plutus, I recognize that his name is similar to one I bear, Plouton, but he isn’t mine. Plutus is the son of Demeter and Iasion. Zeus was pretty pissed about that so he tried to say the kid was mine in retaliation for Persephone. Iasion believed him for a short while but eventually came around when the kid came out looking like him.
AG: We know so little about Zagreus or his sister. Why is that?
H: Honestly, much of their written stories were destroyed. Even then they are very private. We of the Underworld tend to be pretty quiet about our personal lives. Zagreus moves around at night. He still loves wild animals and hunting. Sometimes he blows the horn for Artemis when she allows him to. Melinoë focuses on her work. She deals with nightmares and madness in those deserving of punishment. She isn’t a real people person and tends to avoid the Olympians unless given no other option. I adopted her when she was young. The Underworld is her home and I will always consider her a daughter. It is my way of making up for how I treated her mother. She was a wonderful child and deserved to be loved.
AG: You are often described as being ‘grim-faced’ and ‘pale-skinned’. I rarely see you like that. Is there a particular reason others see you differently?
H: You, my dear, give me no reason to be ‘grim-faced’ as you call it. It ties back to the idea of death as this horrible event. It is also serious work judging the after-life for souls. I love my job and wouldn’t trade it. I also take it seriously. As far as being ‘pale-skinned,’ that is probably because I didn’t often come above ground. No sun, no tan. However, I venture above a little more frequently now and while my skin may never be the bronze seen in Olympus it has a healthy sheen to it I think. *winks at me*
AG: *blushes* well, yes. Yes, it does. You are also known as a god of earthly wealth. Care to elaborate?
H: Anything within the earth is my domain. Gold, silver, jewels, and the unborn seed. While I do not create a harvest, I ensure that the soil gives the seeds what they need. The precious metals and jewels are part of the wealth of the Underworld. Once any of that leaves the earth it becomes the domain of someone else. I have been shown with a Cornucopia with a harvest bounty within it. I find that odd but then again, since I provided the nutrients needed for the seeds to produce that bounty I don’t mind being recognized for it.
AG: In comparison to other Olympians, there isn’t a lot written about your exploits. Aside from the fear of death thing, why do you think that is?
H: *chuckles* Because I know how to keep it in my pants. (at my eye roll) Seriously, I was never one to just randomly mess around. The couple of affairs I had were few and far between stemming from a painful situation. If I had it to do again I wouldn’t. I relish my privacy and I am loyal to those that I call my own. As you said earlier, being the King of the Underworld is a full-time with lots of over-time position. I have never been interested in shirking my duties to go and play.
AG: So why are you taking a more active role above now?
H: I don’t with everybody. I find that with the changing times I need to be more in tune with how this society works if I am going to be judging those souls. The best way to discover that is to experience it in person. I am not just going to manifest my godhood in front of everyone, but those I do interact with have helped me tremendously over the years.
AG: I hate to cut this short but my hands are getting tired. Is there anything else you would like to share before calling it a night?
H: *gives a heart wrenching smile* No. I am more than fine with calling in your night.
AG: Alright…wait. What? Oh. *blushes profusely* Well then…
—-
I hope you learned something from this interview. Hades is a charmer and a tease, for sure. I have greatly enjoyed the years I have had with him and look forward to many more. For now though, it’s time I figure out how to call in his night.
Wait…what?
